Why do we glorify and long for times past when we have worked so hard to improve the safety and quality of life of our children?

Karma recently wrote an article sharing the lyrics to an interesting song she heard: Link

The song is by Bucky Covington (an American Idol wash-out), titled A Different World. In this song he reminds us, as older folks often do, that things used to be done differently and WE TURNED OUT ALRIGHT. Apparently backward facing car seats and lead-free crib paint is creating a nation of sissies.

There is no question that our sedentary life style and reliance on technology for assistance with tasks and for entertainment (along with our love for Big Macs and 800 calorie single serving coffee drinks) has spawned an epidemic of obesity with its related health issues. Unfortunately we have inflicted these problems on our children as well. I would agree that not all "progess" has benefited our children.

However, I am alarmed that so many people (and I see this again and again...it's not just this one instance) feel that exposing our children to dangerous chemicals and dangerous situations was a simpler, better way to do things. I'm sure mommy and daddy enjoyed not having to spend 3 or 4 extra minutes strapping little Timmy into his car seat, but when he was ejected from the car and horribly mangled I doubt they had warm fuzzies about their "simple" times.

On another JU thread I saw an older man recommend feeding an infant a bottle full of sugar water. Of course when I cautioned against it and recommended substituting breast milk or formula for a bottle FULL OF WATER AND SUGAR I was treated to the "doctors change their recommendations all the time, we did it in my day and we turned out fine" bullshit.

"According to CNRC pediatrician Dr. William Heird, healthy babies do not need, nor should they be given, bottles of water or any other liquid except breast milk or iron-fortified infant formula during the first year of life. The reason is that a baby's stomach is quite small and if she 'fills up' on water she might not drink enough formula or breast milk to get all the nutrition she needs to stay healthy and grow."

"While decreased milk production isn't a concern with babies who are fed formula, water is not good for those babies either, since it will reduce their intake of formula. Too much water can even be dangerous: In rare cases, infants have died from water intoxication, and others have developed seizures or hypothermia. Almost all of these babies were bottle-fed."

"It isn't necessary to give your newborn water. Most babies get enough fluids from breast milk or infant formula. Even when a mother's milk supply is just coming in during the first few days after delivery, the baby is getting colostrum,which is enough to keep the baby well hydrated. Because a newborn's kidneys are immature, she has a difficult time concentrating her urine, and if given too much plain water, may have trouble excreting it. This could lead to dangerous changes in the concentrations of sodium and potassium in her bloodstream. "

Etc.

The fact is, what we now know about infant development and nutrition makes what was common-place back in the day just plain STUPID now. In the 60s some children were given LSD and it was not considered harmful or dangerous for them. Now we know better. When you know better, you are expected to apply that new knowledge.

We were born to mothers who smoked and drank
Our cribs were covered in lead based paint
No child proof lids, no seat belts in cars
Rode bikes with no helmets and still here we are, still here we are
We got daddy’s belt when we misbehaved
Had three TV channels you got up to change
No video games and no satellite
All we had were friends and they were outside, playin’ outside

It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

School always started the same every day
The pledge of allegiance then someone would pray
Not every kid made the team when they tried
We got disappointed and that was all right, we turned out all right


It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

No bottled water, we drank from a garden hose
And every Sunday, all the stores were closed

It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

It was a different world


"Exposure to lead can cause damage to the brain and nervous system, slowed growth, hearing problems and headaches, difficulties during pregnancy and other reproductive problems (in both men and women), high blood pressure, digestive problems, nerve disorders, memory and concentration problems, and muscle and joint pain."
I'm not sad cribs are now free of lead based paint. I can't imagine why anyone would pine for that.

"Smoking during pregnancy also increases the risk of stillbirth, miscarriage, and severe vaginal bleeding.
Smoking during pregnancy, which can seriously slow fetal growth, nearly doubles a woman's risk of having a baby with low birth weight. In 1998, 12 percent of babies born to smokers in the U.S. were of low birth weight, compared to 7.2 percent of babies of nonsmokers. Studies by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) also suggest that smoking increases the risk of preterm delivery (before 37 weeks of gestation) by about 30 percent. It also increases the likelihood of certain birth defects, including a cleft lip and/or cleft palate (an opening in the roof of the mouth or the soft tissue in the back of the mouth)."

Why the hell do we long for the old days when it was common and acceptable for pregnant women to smoke?

Drinking during pregnancy can cause:
"Small body size and weight, Slower than normal development and failure to "catch up.", Deformed ribs and sternum, Curved spine and hip dislocations, Bent, fused, webbed, or missing fingers or toes, Limited movement of joints, Small head, Facial abnormalities, Small eye openings, Skin webbing between eyes and base of nose, Drooping eyelids, Nearsightedness, Failure of eyes to move in same direction, Short upturned nose, Sunken nasal bridge, Flat or absent groove between nose and upper lip, Thin upper lip, Opening in roof of mouth, Small jaw, Low-set or poorly formed ears, Organ deformities, Heart defects or heart murmurs, Genital malformations, Kidney and urinary defects, Central nervous system handicaps, Small brain, Faulty arrangement of brain cells and connective tissue, Mental retardation -- occasionally severe, Learning disabilities, Short attention span, Irritability in infancy, Hyperactivity in childhood, Poor body, hand, and finger coordination"

Yippee! Let's have a toast for toasted pregnant mothers!

I could keep going...seat belts, helmets, all these safety measures have been POSITIVE changes to the way we care for our children. I don't consider FAS (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome), mental retardation, broken bones, or head injuries turning out "alright".

I don't believe it's necessary for children to survive catastrophic injuries in order for them to "toughen up" and not be sissies. Sure, a child can fall off his bike with no helmet and suffer no long term effects...sometimes. Then you have the child whose head hits the ground just right and ends up in the hospital in a coma for months and has to learn how walk and talk all over again.

I am happy to not be raising my children in the 50s or 60s or 70s. Guess what? The pledge is still said every morning at my children's school. I know that for a fact because I participated this morning. Are today's children less active than we were? More than likely. That doesn't mean we should scrap all our progress. We can unplug the PS3 and make our safe, healthy children chase each other outside or snuggle on the couch with us and read a book. We can address what is wrong with the way today's children are being brought up without lowering their IQs with lead based paint or creating health problems because 8 months pregnant mommy wants her morning Scotch.

Baby gates and seat belts and age-appropriate toys are all GOOD things. It is a different world. And I am GLAD of it.
Comments (Page 1)
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on Aug 30, 2007
Thanks. It is kind of choppy...I started writing it during a nap and had to finish quickly when she woke up.

I agree about the title. I wrote it last and it was a product of haste. Haha, I just couldn't think of anything good before my Isabella came over to set the caps lock as she always manages to do. LOL.



It's prudent to note that everyone waxing poetic about 'a different time, a different world' survived to do so. Those who were ejected from cars, or severely retarded due to FAS or lead poisoning are either dead or drooling, and not prone to singing about the good old days.


Exactly.

I don't have the heart to do it...it would upset me too much...but I could have dug up stories and photos of children who have fallen victim to the ways of the "simpler times".

I agree that as our society has evolved we have lost touch with some important values and practices, but I am always shocked to hear (read) people fondly discussing things like lack of seat belts or lead-based paint.
on Aug 30, 2007
I agree that as our society has evolved we have lost touch with some important values and practices, but I am always shocked to hear (read) people fondly discussing things like lack of seat belts or lead-based paint.


~putting on devil's advocate hat~

I think what they're basically trying to say is that maybe our society has become overly cautious, and that sometimes we get absurd about it.

~taking off devil's advocate hat~

That being said, he picked some crappy examples. Mothers drinking and smoking while pregnant? Umm, that's a BAD thing. I think the only lines in this with which I agree are the part about the garden hose and not making the little league team automatically. As for "daddy's belt", well, the spanking debate's a whole other issue.

Frankly, in my opinion, this guy's pretty much evidence of why smoking and drinking while pregnant, lead based paint on cribs, and riding bikes without helmets is a bad thing.

Looking back, I did a pretty crappy job playing devil's advocate...lol!
on Aug 30, 2007
Don't worry, you took off the hat first.
on Aug 30, 2007

I think you took that all too literally.

The point was that we are WAY to cautious and PC about everything nowadays.  Heck, if you followed every precaution that is out there, you might as well stay in bed and under the covers.

Some of the things that he says is stupid, but it's the point of the song, not the specific examples.

Tex, do your children go to a regular public school, our is it military based, or mainly filled with military kids?  My daughter learned the pledge from me- they never have said it in her school.  They can't even have "Christmas" songs sung at their "Holiday" party.

We are at a point that people are getting so terrified of what could happen that they rather keep their kids trapped inside playing video games or watching TV than to have them outside playing because of all the ways they could get hurt.  Kids don't learn learn how to deal with disappointment because everyone who tries out for a team now gets to play.  Kids don't know what it's like to have to chill out for all of Sunday because nothing is open.  If the electricity is out it's like the world is ending.

And, lets talk about parents.  Mom's are supposed to be perfect.  They should eat perfectly when pregnant, take their gigantic vitamin, and don't even go near somebody smoking.  They shouldn't even yell at their kids, and their kids are supposed to be well behaved, little adults when in public.  Heaven forbid that they act like *gasp* kids when in public!

I would hope that nobody is taking that song seriously word for word.  I would think that people are taking it (like I did) as an example of how ridiculous our cautiousness and political correctness has become.

 

on Aug 30, 2007
The point was that we are WAY to cautious and PC about everything nowadays. Heck, if you followed every precaution that is out there, you might as well stay in bed and under the covers.


Well said and I agree completely. Yes, the songwriter did use some crappy examples. But society does seem to be overly cautious these days. I recently heard a story about a group of residents who have a party every year. They close off their street, set up BBQ's, tables etc., on the road and have a great day. On trying to organise it for this year, they were told they'd have to have public liability insurance, a first aide officer present and put in documentation to support their application, including an environmental impact study.

I love these times. Heck, I'm alive and enjoying every thing these days have to offer. Lamenting for the 'simpler' days of the past is something I leave to others.

on Aug 30, 2007
My children are in a regular public school (on post, but it's not DOD).

I have a real problem with the examples used and I honestly think they ruin the entire sentiment.

I don't think I took the song too literally, I think the song is fucking retarded.
on Aug 30, 2007
I don't think I took the song too literally, I think the song is fucking retarded.


Eloquent to the last . . .
on Aug 30, 2007

I don't think I took the song too literally, I think the song is fucking retarded.

that line made me laugh out loud.  My input there were good things about the good old days but not all of it.  It makes me crazy that most kids don't play outside anymore.  I'm like go play spud, go play kick the can.  They don't even know how to entertain themselves.  They must have things that plug in or run on batteries to entertain themselves.  We would play mother may I and Simon says in the driveway, no batteries required. 

I have to agree also that smoking and drinking during pregnancy are NOT good.  I have known people that still smoked while they are pregnant, they just don't do it in public anymore.  I think that is the main difference is that people hide those behaviors but not everyone has stopped them. 

My boys go to public school and they say both the pledge of allegiance and the Texas pledge every morning.  They sing Christmas songs at their Christmas program and a girl even sang a Christian song at their talent show. 

on Aug 31, 2007
I think you took that all too literally.The point was that we are WAY to cautious and PC about everything nowadays. Heck, if you followed every precaution that is out there, you might as well stay in bed and under the covers.


Yes, the songwriter did use some crappy examples.


I love these times. Heck, I'm alive and enjoying every thing these days have to offer


I think the song is fucking retarded


Ditto on all counts!


That's why it's up to us, each of us, to teach and guide our children, siblings, whomever, to the path we hope that they will go.

Reminiscing on the past for me (I can only speak for me) is usually an example in showing my kids how things were done once and discussion ensues on what is right or wrong or even better today. It is also a time for story telling of our culture and the things my parents used to do that I'll always remember fondly. It is not a time of reprimand and anger and wishing to undo things. I'm glad I grew up in the era I did, glad I wasn't born earlier, or else I might not even be here writing this, and will always reminisce on the good old days. That said, it doesn't mean that I wish to remain there, because living for today is always best and while technology is fun and enjoyable and does makes life easier, it's sad when a community cannot have a street party (as I've experienced in the past while living in NY and as Maso referenced) without all the crap that people have to deal with these days.
on Aug 31, 2007
I'm with you on this one, Tex. I had a discussion with some of the older JUers a little while ago about the glorification of the old days and how retarded it is. I think you put it a hell of a lot more eloquently than I did.
on Aug 31, 2007
In thirty or fourty years there will be new practices of the day that show what is done now was also stupid and insane - its always been that way, always will, new discoveries are made, life moves on. The basis of "the good old days" is more in a spiritual and ethical sense, the way one went about life, not how one went about life. The way one went about life has changed slowly over the last hundred years, down the road of individuality, erosion of ethics, respect and responsibility. It was that way in the 50s 60s & 70s when they also lamented the erosion of ethics and personal standards from those in vogue in the 20s 30s & 40s.

I dont see that erosion changing anytime soon, and I guarantee that those just starting down the road of raising children, moving to adult life, will in thirty or fourty years look back and "pine" for the "good old days" of their youth when things were "so much better", despite all the changes and discoveries that will have happened by then making today look archaic, backward and positively lethal in comparison. There is also the side issue of pride, each successive generation likes to think itself wiser and better than the last one. That side issue of pride also tends to be the cause of many push backs on "the good old days", relying on the how as ammunition for the defence, and usually ignoring the way as the latter is harder to illustrate and fight for without seeming to be old fashioned.

I also am very happy about the discoveries made and how they have make our lives safer, and better quality of life, individuals would have to be crazy not to be happy about it. The way in which we go about our lives is a different ball game, and is I believe the root of the phrase "the good old days".
on Aug 31, 2007
My kids spent more time during that Idol season ridiculing Bucky Covington. And justly so. In fact, I was rather surprised that he got to record anything. Then again ... given some of the other artists out there (K. Fed.) I don't know why I was surprised.

Regarding the song - I think reading it literally ... should be done. We have survived all those things. Not because of them, but inspite of them. We didn't know any better, and yet, we still managed to get past it and continue on. As a society, we have learned that the majority of those things should be addressed. Why? Because we survived them, and others didn't. It was a different world than the one we live in. A more ignorant world. A more naive world.

The required use of safety equipment (helmets, kneepads, seatbelts, etc.), the prohibition against lead-based paints, the restriction from using Asbestos, and many other lessons learned are important. They allow us to mitigate as many unnecessary risks for members of our society, as we can.

The other point of the song is that, while learning these lessons was necessary, we can carry that protectiveness too far. Schools prohibiting Tag (and similar games) because some kids might get their feelings hurt. Requiring school systems to pass children that wouldn't have met the mark 20 years ago just so that they don't feel "different". All of this is going too far.

on Aug 31, 2007
The required use of safety equipment (helmets, kneepads, seatbelts, etc.),


I disagree with the required use of safety equipment, but only because you can't fix stupid. Mandating the safety equipment doesn't make kids safer, it just makes the stupid sneakier.

The exceptions I would put on this are seat belt laws for minors and car seats for infants. Children should not have to die for the stupidity of their parents. A child can't chhose to buckle up or not.

And even in those instances, I think common sense should prevail. A truckload of kids heading back at a slow rate of speed from a football game so most of 'em don['t have to walk shouldn't be considered the same as a truckfull of illegals hurling down the highway at 7:00am to get to the roofing job.
on Aug 31, 2007
"In thirty or fourty years there will be new practices of the day that show what is done now was also stupid and insane"

They used to pass around coins and bills! Imagine, coming into contact with germs all the time...
on Aug 31, 2007
First let me say and repeat LW's words, excellent rebuttal. But like Karma, I too think the other article was taken a bit too literal in what some of us were really trying to say. I find it hard to believe that you would think those of us who miss "the good old days" would not actually want "backward facing car seats and lead-free crib paint ". I am somewhat offended and appalled at the idea that you believe that some of us " feel that exposing our children to dangerous chemicals and dangerous situations was a simpler, better way to do things".

I love my children to death, I wouldn't purposely want to expose them to dangerous chemicals or dangerous situations. That is not what I was looking at or commenting about. I was pointing to how I don't like to let my kids play outside because of so many dangers that when I was a child either did not exist or were not much of a threat.

I guess you can say I am at a 50/50 on this article. It was great of you to point this out and make sure the "remembering the old days" was about the good things not the bad things.
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