Why do we glorify and long for times past when we have worked so hard to improve the safety and quality of life of our children?

Karma recently wrote an article sharing the lyrics to an interesting song she heard: Link

The song is by Bucky Covington (an American Idol wash-out), titled A Different World. In this song he reminds us, as older folks often do, that things used to be done differently and WE TURNED OUT ALRIGHT. Apparently backward facing car seats and lead-free crib paint is creating a nation of sissies.

There is no question that our sedentary life style and reliance on technology for assistance with tasks and for entertainment (along with our love for Big Macs and 800 calorie single serving coffee drinks) has spawned an epidemic of obesity with its related health issues. Unfortunately we have inflicted these problems on our children as well. I would agree that not all "progess" has benefited our children.

However, I am alarmed that so many people (and I see this again and again...it's not just this one instance) feel that exposing our children to dangerous chemicals and dangerous situations was a simpler, better way to do things. I'm sure mommy and daddy enjoyed not having to spend 3 or 4 extra minutes strapping little Timmy into his car seat, but when he was ejected from the car and horribly mangled I doubt they had warm fuzzies about their "simple" times.

On another JU thread I saw an older man recommend feeding an infant a bottle full of sugar water. Of course when I cautioned against it and recommended substituting breast milk or formula for a bottle FULL OF WATER AND SUGAR I was treated to the "doctors change their recommendations all the time, we did it in my day and we turned out fine" bullshit.

"According to CNRC pediatrician Dr. William Heird, healthy babies do not need, nor should they be given, bottles of water or any other liquid except breast milk or iron-fortified infant formula during the first year of life. The reason is that a baby's stomach is quite small and if she 'fills up' on water she might not drink enough formula or breast milk to get all the nutrition she needs to stay healthy and grow."

"While decreased milk production isn't a concern with babies who are fed formula, water is not good for those babies either, since it will reduce their intake of formula. Too much water can even be dangerous: In rare cases, infants have died from water intoxication, and others have developed seizures or hypothermia. Almost all of these babies were bottle-fed."

"It isn't necessary to give your newborn water. Most babies get enough fluids from breast milk or infant formula. Even when a mother's milk supply is just coming in during the first few days after delivery, the baby is getting colostrum,which is enough to keep the baby well hydrated. Because a newborn's kidneys are immature, she has a difficult time concentrating her urine, and if given too much plain water, may have trouble excreting it. This could lead to dangerous changes in the concentrations of sodium and potassium in her bloodstream. "

Etc.

The fact is, what we now know about infant development and nutrition makes what was common-place back in the day just plain STUPID now. In the 60s some children were given LSD and it was not considered harmful or dangerous for them. Now we know better. When you know better, you are expected to apply that new knowledge.

We were born to mothers who smoked and drank
Our cribs were covered in lead based paint
No child proof lids, no seat belts in cars
Rode bikes with no helmets and still here we are, still here we are
We got daddy’s belt when we misbehaved
Had three TV channels you got up to change
No video games and no satellite
All we had were friends and they were outside, playin’ outside

It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

School always started the same every day
The pledge of allegiance then someone would pray
Not every kid made the team when they tried
We got disappointed and that was all right, we turned out all right


It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

No bottled water, we drank from a garden hose
And every Sunday, all the stores were closed

It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

It was a different world


"Exposure to lead can cause damage to the brain and nervous system, slowed growth, hearing problems and headaches, difficulties during pregnancy and other reproductive problems (in both men and women), high blood pressure, digestive problems, nerve disorders, memory and concentration problems, and muscle and joint pain."
I'm not sad cribs are now free of lead based paint. I can't imagine why anyone would pine for that.

"Smoking during pregnancy also increases the risk of stillbirth, miscarriage, and severe vaginal bleeding.
Smoking during pregnancy, which can seriously slow fetal growth, nearly doubles a woman's risk of having a baby with low birth weight. In 1998, 12 percent of babies born to smokers in the U.S. were of low birth weight, compared to 7.2 percent of babies of nonsmokers. Studies by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) also suggest that smoking increases the risk of preterm delivery (before 37 weeks of gestation) by about 30 percent. It also increases the likelihood of certain birth defects, including a cleft lip and/or cleft palate (an opening in the roof of the mouth or the soft tissue in the back of the mouth)."

Why the hell do we long for the old days when it was common and acceptable for pregnant women to smoke?

Drinking during pregnancy can cause:
"Small body size and weight, Slower than normal development and failure to "catch up.", Deformed ribs and sternum, Curved spine and hip dislocations, Bent, fused, webbed, or missing fingers or toes, Limited movement of joints, Small head, Facial abnormalities, Small eye openings, Skin webbing between eyes and base of nose, Drooping eyelids, Nearsightedness, Failure of eyes to move in same direction, Short upturned nose, Sunken nasal bridge, Flat or absent groove between nose and upper lip, Thin upper lip, Opening in roof of mouth, Small jaw, Low-set or poorly formed ears, Organ deformities, Heart defects or heart murmurs, Genital malformations, Kidney and urinary defects, Central nervous system handicaps, Small brain, Faulty arrangement of brain cells and connective tissue, Mental retardation -- occasionally severe, Learning disabilities, Short attention span, Irritability in infancy, Hyperactivity in childhood, Poor body, hand, and finger coordination"

Yippee! Let's have a toast for toasted pregnant mothers!

I could keep going...seat belts, helmets, all these safety measures have been POSITIVE changes to the way we care for our children. I don't consider FAS (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome), mental retardation, broken bones, or head injuries turning out "alright".

I don't believe it's necessary for children to survive catastrophic injuries in order for them to "toughen up" and not be sissies. Sure, a child can fall off his bike with no helmet and suffer no long term effects...sometimes. Then you have the child whose head hits the ground just right and ends up in the hospital in a coma for months and has to learn how walk and talk all over again.

I am happy to not be raising my children in the 50s or 60s or 70s. Guess what? The pledge is still said every morning at my children's school. I know that for a fact because I participated this morning. Are today's children less active than we were? More than likely. That doesn't mean we should scrap all our progress. We can unplug the PS3 and make our safe, healthy children chase each other outside or snuggle on the couch with us and read a book. We can address what is wrong with the way today's children are being brought up without lowering their IQs with lead based paint or creating health problems because 8 months pregnant mommy wants her morning Scotch.

Baby gates and seat belts and age-appropriate toys are all GOOD things. It is a different world. And I am GLAD of it.
Comments (Page 2)
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on Aug 31, 2007
I had a discussion with some of the older JUers a little while ago about the glorification of the old days and how retarded it is. I think you put it a hell of a lot more eloquently than I did.


I don't see how glorifying the past is retarded. It's because of the past that we have learned how to protect and better ourselves for today and tomorrow. Even though I never owned an old car with few or any electronic components in it, I glorify cars like the 69 Camaro and the 57 Chevy for being easier to repair and less expensive. I glorify radio stations back then for actually playing more music than they do now. I glorify TV for having real comedy and not these corny TV shows we have today.

Sure, you can find bad things from some of the examples I made, cars were less efficient or worse for the environment, radio stations only played songs from certain singers, TV stations were racist. But et's be realistic, we can find just as many bad things today about everything as we did back then.

I just don't understand why is you feel you disagree with something you feel the need to brand everyone who disagrees with you with an insult. I am not retarded, only those who think others are retarded because their views don't fall in line with theirs are the real retards.
on Aug 31, 2007
I just don't understand why is you feel you disagree with something you feel the need to brand everyone who disagrees with you with an insult. I am not retarded, only those who think others are retarded because their views don't fall in line with theirs are the real retards.


Put the brakes on there slick. Take a breath and read the comment you quoted again. Where in there did it say those who glorify the old days are retarded? Oh, right, it didn't. It says the act is retarded. You can put that chip back on your shoulder. It hasn't actually been knocked off yet.

As for the article(s), I'm one of those wishy-washy people who think right down the middle. On the one hand, I agree with Karma (though not Bucky, I could never agree with someone with a name like Bucky), we have taken this culture of protection a tad too far in many regards. Yet at the same time, it would be ridiculous to spit in the face of the advancements in safety and knowledge we have made.

So there you go, I'm officially a fence-sitter.
on Aug 31, 2007
If I got pregnant, I'd probably start drinking...you know, being a guy and all.   



Good article, Tex.

~Zoo
on Aug 31, 2007
Put the brakes on there slick. Take a breath and read the comment you quoted again. Where in there did it say those who glorify the old days are retarded? Oh, right, it didn't. It says the act is retarded. You can put that chip back on your shoulder. It hasn't actually been knocked off yet.


I'm trying to be slick? You are condemning the act, as if the act doesn't need someone to do it. That's like condemning the act of murder but not the person who commits it. I've never heard of a chipmunk glorify the old days so unless you are not talking about animals maybe you can explain to me how do you condemn the act but not those who commit it?
on Aug 31, 2007
As for the article(s), I'm one of those wishy-washy people who think right down the middle. On the one hand, I agree with Karma (though not Bucky, I could never agree with someone with a name like Bucky),


So now you discriminate against people called Bucky?   

we have taken this culture of protection a tad too far in many regards. Yet at the same time, it would be ridiculous to spit in the face of the advancements in safety and knowledge we have made.

So there you go, I'm officially a fence-sitter.


I think in a way we all are. We all want whats best for our kids, and ourselves, without wrapping them in foam or cotton 24/7.
on Aug 31, 2007
DP.
on Aug 31, 2007
They used to pass around coins and bills! Imagine, coming into contact with germs all the time...


Nice One   
on Aug 31, 2007
I'm trying to be slick? You are condemning the act, as if the act doesn't need someone to do it. That's like condemning the act of murder but not the person who commits it. I've never heard of a chipmunk glorify the old days so unless you are not talking about animals maybe you can explain to me how do you condemn the act but not those who commit it?


Hold on there a minute. Your example isn't even the same thing. That is just far too extreme to even be taken seriously. So I won't.

I mean, come on. As a doctor, I think smoking is really, really stupid. Does that mean I automatically condemn those who smoke and call them all stupid? No, I just think they are making a really poor choice for their health. That doesn't necessitate that I condemn them. This is the same. Believe it or not, there are those of us who are sufficiently level headed that we can think doing something is retarded without condemning those who do it as "retards". If you can't, that isn't our problem.
on Aug 31, 2007
But let's be realistic, we can find just as many bad things today about everything as we did back then.

I just don't understand why is you feel you disagree with something you feel the need to brand everyone who disagrees with you with an insult. I am not retarded, only those who think others are retarded because their views don't fall in line with theirs are the real retards.


Okay. This is why you're acting retarded. You would glorify something that you freely admit isn't much good. Glorify. That's a big word with very specific connotations. And you would use it to describe a time of racism, poor quality machinery that needs constant fixing, environmental poisons and other Really Bad Things (TM).

You would happily glorify that time and hold it up as a paragon of virtue.

You're acting like a blind fool, so why shouldn't I call you a retard? I expect to be hauled back when I say something stupid, it's only common courtesy that I show others that same respect for their personal growth.
on Aug 31, 2007
Hold on there a minute. Your example isn't even the same thing. That is just far too extreme to even be taken seriously. So I won't.


That's your opinion. Just because you say it isn't the same doesn't mean it isn't. We don't see it the same. No big deal.

I mean, come on. As a doctor, I think smoking is really, really stupid. Does that mean I automatically condemn those who smoke and call them all stupid? No, I just think they are making a really poor choice for their health.


OK, talk about not making sense. How can you think smoking is stupid and not think those who do it are not? This is just a poor excuse to claim you didn't call the person stupid. That's like that saying "don't hate the player, hate the game". I'm sorry to say but I to think smoking is stupid and therefor those who smoke I think they are stupid as well. I don't mean to insult those on here who smoke but it's just my opinion. My brother was the first one I told. Just like I'm sure some here think I'm stupid for something I do. I don't care. By you saying that they are just making a very poor choice is simply trying to hide the truth of how you really feel.

Maybe it's just me, can someone here really tell me you think what BlueDev says is OK? Those of you who smoke do not believe he is calling you stupid when he says he thinks smoking is stupid? I don't get it, how do you call an action stupid and nto consider the person taking the action stupid.

Believe it or not, there are those of us who are sufficiently level headed that we can think doing something is retarded without condemning those who do it as "retards". If you can't, that isn't our problem.


Funny how people like you love to pat yourselves in the back. Again, believe what you want. I will believe what I want. There.
on Aug 31, 2007
Okay. This is why you're acting retarded. You would glorify something that you freely admit isn't much good. Glorify. That's a big word with very specific connotations.


Funny, Cato here proves my point. BlueDev doesn't think I'm retarded even though he thinks my actions are yet Cacto is actually calling me retarded for the same actions BlueDev claims not to be calling retarded for.

Thank you for proving my point Cacto.

And you would use it to describe a time of racism, poor quality machinery that needs constant fixing, environmental poisons and other Really Bad Things (TM)


Funny how you condemn an entire era only on the bad things that happened during those times but ignore all the good stuff that happened. Sure, there was racism back then (really bad racism), we still have racism today, so does that make us horrible people in horrible times? Poor quality machinery? Back then they were considered state of the art and our technology today will be seen as antiquated in a year or two. Environmental poison? LOL, I guess cars throw perfume rather than smoke. What happened to that Global Warming crap you people cry about? It's no longer happening?

Talk about ignorant replies. Back in the days were good days and were bad days. I chose to remember the good stuff and am happy we have fixed many of the bad. But I'm not gonna call the 90s, 80s and 70s a hell hole just because there were some things back then that were not as good as they are today. I think the 70s and 80s were the best times for me, great music, less bullshit from the Govt, better cars than today.

You would happily glorify that time and hold it up as a paragon of virtue.


You're so stupid you can't even figure out that's not what I said. Paragon of virtue, lol. Leave it to idiots like you to use fancy words to make yourself sound smart.

You're acting like a blind fool, so why shouldn't I call you a retard? I expect to be hauled back when I say something stupid, it's only common courtesy that I show others that same respect for their personal growth.


The only other blind fool here, besides Col gene, is you. You stuck your nose in a conversation you didn't even understand and instead opened your mouth and spewed idiocy about something you couldn't understand.
on Sep 01, 2007

Funny, Cato here proves my point. BlueDev doesn't think I'm retarded even though he thinks my actions are yet Cacto is actually calling me retarded for the same actions BlueDev claims not to be calling retarded for.

Thank you for proving my point Cacto.


Your point being? That I'm not BlueDev or that I'm naturally cantankerous?


Talk about ignorant replies. Back in the days were good days and were bad days. I chose to remember the good stuff and am happy we have fixed many of the bad. But I'm not gonna call the 90s, 80s and 70s a hell hole just because there were some things back then that were not as good as they are today. I think the 70s and 80s were the best times for me, great music, less bullshit from the Govt, better cars than today.


I'll try this again. There's a difference between glorifying and admiring certain aspects. Glorification is unthinking, unjudging adoration. It does not include acceptance of failures and an 'on the balance' belief that one is probably better.

If that doesn't make it clear why I don't think you really glorify the past (from your words anyway) than I don't know what will make it clear to you.

You're so stupid you can't even figure out that's not what I said.


But you did. You said you glorified radio stations of all things. Only you and god know why.

The only other blind fool here, besides Col gene, is you. You stuck your nose in a conversation you didn't even understand and instead opened your mouth and spewed idiocy about something you couldn't understand.


I try not to understand what I'm saying. It helps to add that extra bit of surprise when I say it again only differently in the exact same sentence. It pleases me that you feel the same way.
on Sep 01, 2007
There's a difference between glorifying and admiring certain aspects. Glorification is unthinking, unjudging adoration.


You've got a point. And one thing I think people tend to overlook in glorifying the past is in the area of cars. Yes, we may be nostalgic for those older cars, but you know what? They were less reliable. A 70 mile drive back in the "day" was not one you undertook if it could be avoided because you couldn't always depend on your car to get you there if you were poor. Now more of us drive cars that can make it across the country every other weekend without concern.
on Sep 01, 2007

You've got a point. And one thing I think people tend to overlook in glorifying the past is in the area of cars. Yes, we may be nostalgic for those older cars, but you know what? They were less reliable. A 70 mile drive back in the "day" was not one you undertook if it could be avoided because you couldn't always depend on your car to get you there if you were poor. Now more of us drive cars that can make it across the country every other weekend without concern.


While I understand what you are saying keep in mind that back then not everyone was looking to travel far all the time. It sucks to think that I use to be able to walk to stores all the time when I was young cause everything was close, now you can barely find a decent place to buy the basics close by and cheap for that matter. I f my car breaks I'll be partially screwed. It would take 1 1/2 hours to get to my job and my wife works half an hour away by car. I just spent $280 preparing my vehicle this week alone. Reliable? My own truck is in the junk yard right now. It cost an arm and a leg to fix cars now a days and they don't last long. Hell, it cost $45 to change the oil on my truck, $200 to change the spark plugs on my mother-in-law's vehicle. A person like me who doesn't travel long distances much doesn't need a car that can make it California, I need a car that won't break every other week, that is easy to fix and that doesn't need a mechanic and a technician to fix it. Even Toyota's have problems now a days.

I honestly would rather have a 69 Camaro today than the truck I currently have or the Toyota I had before. Now a days people travel a lot, be it business or pleasure.
on Sep 01, 2007
I try not to understand what I'm saying. It helps to add that extra bit of surprise when I say it again only differently in the exact same sentence. It pleases me that you feel the same way.


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