Doesn't it feel so satisfying to beat a child's buttocks raw when they've done something awful and angered you?

The old saying, "This is going to hurt me a lot more than it hurts you" just simply isn't true. Hitting is great stress relief. It's a way to excise aggression. And when it's used to punish a child who has embarrassed or otherwise angered you, it can be considered a parental duty. Discipline.

We can't pull our belts off and beat the ass of the snooty lady in the Ford Explorer who whipped into "our" parking space after we'd waited 10 minutes for it and shown clear intent, via a turn signal, to use that spot. How great would it be if we could bend the old biddy over our knee and just let her have it?

What about when a conniving coworker takes credit for something we've worked diligently on for days? Wouldn't it be delicious to be able to take that ping-pong paddle in the bottom drawer of our desks and smack and smack until we felt calm?

Let me interject a little disclaimer here: I think that parents should have the right to use measured physical punishment as discipline if they choose. This is not a "we need a law!" post. It's more of a "think about this" post.

My children are still young. My parenting experience is limited. I've educated myself a fair amount through college study on child development, through reading parenting books and magazines, through talking with other parents, and through attending several free parenting classes offered by the Army. In spite of this, I realize I don't know it all. And I cannot know whether the discipline tools I currently use with my children will continue to be appropriate or if they will help them grow into respectful, hard-working adults with integrity.

However, it is my belief that spanking and other forms of corporal punishment do less to benefit a child through instruction and more to benefit an adult through stress relief.

Spanking is easy. It's the easy out.

It doesn't require thought. It doesn't require that you monitor the child for several minutes or even days or weeks as they complete a fleshed out discipline regimen. It doesn't require the parent to miss a movie or a trip to the ice cream shop. It's easy.

It also, as I've previously mentioned, provides the parent with a much-needed outlet for his or her anger.

Does a child learn life long self-discipline and personal integrity through spanking? Child development is such that in the younger years, a child lacks empathy. They have a difficult time understanding how their actions affect other people. They are egocentric and it is possible to stop a bad behavior by giving them a negative consequence that they will want to avoid.

However, they do not have the memory capacity that adults do, and so punishment must immediately follow the infraction or they will have no clue why this person they depend on to meet their needs is hurting them. This also means that a spanking for pulling the cat's tail last week doesn't stand a good chance of being a deterrent memory for this week.

My personal choice for disciplining very young children is that spanking (a swift swat, more scarily surprising to the child than painful) is an appropriate tool when a child who is too young to understand natural consequences when they are explained to him has done something physically dangerous. Example: running out in the street. This will not always keep them from running into the street again, something which is best avoided through parental vigilance, but it often will work as a deterrent in the short term when it is imperative that a behavior be stopped.

Very young children benefit more from distraction than actual discipline. Because of their limited understanding of natural consequences, inability to understand how their behaviors may harm someone else, and their memory capacity, the most effective way to get them to stop an undesirable behavior is to distract them with something else. This requires effort on the part of the parent, but works well for stopping bad behavior in the moment. It is not a long-term solution, but at a very young age, children operate in the moment, without much, if any, thought for future or past consequences.

As children grow and develop, avoidance of negative consequences is their primary motivating factor (not yet empathy or understanding of how their behaviors affect others). Spanking could work in children who have reached this level of development.

However, spanking fails to address natural consequences, which children need to start becoming familiar with. When discipline reinforces natural consequences, children learn that the rules are not arbitrary, but have a purpose and that adhering to the rules is in their best interest. Children need to see the connection between their behavior and choices and how those negative choices affect themselves and others. An example of discipline that reinforces natural consequences is making a child who has intentionally broken a friend's favorite toy give the friend their own favorite toy. The punishment is relevant to the infraction, works as a deterrent, and demonstrates the real life consequences of destroying the property of others (restitution).

Natural consequence-based discipline requires thought and effort and sometimes even personal sacrifice on the part of the parent, but I believe that it is much more beneficial for the child by way of character development. More than just a punishment, it is also a lesson.

Older children are able to empathize with others and understand how their choices and behaviors may bring negative consequences for themselves and others. They are not driven primarily by selfish avoidance of pain or other more direct punishments, but can be deterred from undesirable behavior simply through knowing that a certain behavior will disappoint their parents or others. When children reach this point in their development, many more discipline tools and methods are effective in deterring bad behavior. A word of caution, though...just because a punishment or discipline deters bad behavior does not mean that it builds character or integrity in a child. A form of discipline can be effective and still physically or psychologically damaging to a child.

Another concern with spanking is that it teaches a child to hit in order to demonstrate their disapproval of the actions of others, thus encouraging violence.

My oldest child is eight and neither of my children are delinquents or have any major discipline problems. I know that the method I've advocated (which I've very much simplified here) works up to age 8 with MY children. Every family is different, and every child is different. Unfortunately, so much of parenting is trial and error. And you don't get to eat the mistakes, haha. We all have to work out the discipline plan that we feel best serves our children.

For me, that plan does not center around spanking, which I feel is primarily an aggression outlet for parents and teaches children nothing except "don't get caught or you'll get beat" and "I can do what I want and then just take my licks...it's worth it".

I was spanked as a child...all the way up to even my mid-teens. When I did something bad I'd get the choice of grounding or spanking. It didn't take me long to figure out how easy it was to take a spanking and go on my merry little way. It just wasn't a deterrent for me. It was easy. Easy for my parents to administer, and easy for me to take. A few minutes of pain was a small price to pay for the deliciously awful stuff I did.

In my experience, spanking, while it remains a parent's right, is just not a real discipline plan. It's a parent lashing out at a child rather than instructing him. Spanking is lazy and should be replaced with more effective forms of discipline that actually teach a child how to behave and become a decent adult.

We teach our children ways to deal with their anger and provide them with safe, appropriate outlets. What kind of message are we sending when we can't do the same?



Comments (Page 1)
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on Oct 05, 2005
I agree in that spanking is best used when the kids are too young to be reasoned with in situations like running into the road. We spanked Katy when she needed it (and then told her why when she was old enough to grasp both things) and the need became less and less as time went on. Thankfully now she is a pretty well behaved kid.
on Oct 05, 2005
We spanked when ours were littler...too little to understand. Now that they're older...well, it's been a few years since any of them got a spanking. No need now....it's more effective to talk to them and punish them by restricting activities or taking things away.
on Oct 05, 2005
that....

Or it could be just a quick way to change a child's direction of thought when they are still a bit too young to undestand that what they are doing is either dangerous or just unacceptable behavior.

Of course, not even a quick spanking is the best choice for all kids. With one of my sons you could have done everything you mentioned to him and all he would do is sit there and look at you... making him sit on his bed and cry was what worked with him... another of my sons would have just sat on the bed and stared at you, but a quick swat to the butt, or to the back of the hand got the message through really well.

spanking is an option, sometimes it is everything you accuse it of being, but not always. I've seen a lot of abused kids in my life, and not all of them were hit... leaving a kid alone in a dark room is much more abusive than a legitimate spanking.
on Oct 05, 2005

Or it could be just a quick way to change a child's direction of thought when they are still a bit too young to undestand that what they are doing is either dangerous or just unacceptable behavior.

actually she said that this was true in her article....

on Oct 05, 2005
greywar:
I agree in that spanking is best used when the kids are too young to be reasoned with in situations like running into the road. We spanked Katy when she needed it (and then told her why when she was old enough to grasp both things) and the need became less and less as time went on.


That's exactly the way I see it. And I think explaining, even when they are too young to fully understand sets a good tone.

Thankfully now she is a pretty well behaved kid.


Congrats on that, dad.

dharma:
We spanked when ours were littler...too little to understand.


I agree that spanking can be a useful option with very young children.

Now that they're older...well, it's been a few years since any of them got a spanking. No need now....it's more effective to talk to them and punish them by restricting activities or taking things away.


Right...and that requires effort and thought from you and Dave. As children get older and can understand true instruction, spanking becomes an easy punishment and not much of an instructional tool. Each child is different, and parents have to work to understand what works best with each child.

ParaTed:
Or it could be just a quick way to change a child's direction of thought when they are still a bit too young to undestand that what they are doing is either dangerous or just unacceptable behavior.


As I stated in the article.

Of course, not even a quick spanking is the best choice for all kids. With one of my sons you could have done everything you mentioned to him and all he would do is sit there and look at you... making him sit on his bed and cry was what worked with him... another of my sons would have just sat on the bed and stared at you, but a quick swat to the butt, or to the back of the hand got the message through really well.


Also mentioned in my article. Parenting is a difficult venture, and it requires the adults to understand their children and know, and use, the tools that work best with each child.

spanking is an option, sometimes it is everything you accuse it of being, but not always.


If a parent's discipline repertoire consists only of spanking, I do believe that spanking is exactly what I've accused it of being. It is not a be all and end all for instruction. Often it is a lazy, ineffective tool that benefits the parent but not the child.

I've seen a lot of abused kids in my life, and not all of them were hit... leaving a kid alone in a dark room is much more abusive than a legitimate spanking.


I don't think I've disputed that in my article. As I mentioned, there are forms of discipline and punishment that are effective but still damaging to the child.
on Oct 05, 2005
greywar:
actually she said that this was true in her article....


Haha, yep.

BTW, I've got to run to Blockbuster, so please understand that if I don't reply to comments immediately it's not because I'm "avoiding the thread"...I'll be back back shortly.
on Oct 05, 2005
Congrats on that, dad.


nope, the congrats belong to xtine who has done far more of the child rearing than I ever did.Link
on Oct 05, 2005
ooh, my dad used to whip my ass with a belt BIG TIME. I got I don't know how many licks in school. I somehow lived. Funny, but I can count on one hand how many times I've spanked my two sons and they are now great young men woh make all A's. I don't know, I have a jail full of guys born in the late seventies and mid eighties during the "no spank zone." Go figure.

I believe there's a right way and a wrong way to use physical violence. It all boils down to that simple fact. Good article, Tex.
on Oct 05, 2005
I cannot comment now, but it is a good topic.
on Oct 05, 2005
I always though attaching battery cables to the genitals of children is a good way to get my point across.

ok child listen I am only going to say this once. behave

BUZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT CRACKLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

understand?
on Oct 05, 2005
greywar:
nope, the congrats belong to xtine who has done far more of the child rearing than I ever did


Props to xtine, then. Very classy of you to give her credit for her parenting skills.

Shovelheat:
ooh, my dad used to whip my ass with a belt BIG TIME. I got I don't know how many licks in school. I somehow lived.


Haha. Well, I'm quite familiar with the belt (and those damn paddles with the bouncy balls!). I don't think it's going to ruin a kid for them to be spanked. I do think that it's often a rather poor excuse for true discipline, though.

Funny, but I can count on one hand how many times I've spanked my two sons and they are now great young men woh make all A's.


My boys haven't been spanked in a long, long time simply because we've found that it isn't the most effective way to deal with problems with our boys. I think it requires a lot more of the parent to come up with individual kid-specific, long term discipline solutions to bad behavior, but it's well worth the effort.

Congrats on your boys!

I don't know, I have a jail full of guys born in the late seventies and mid eighties during the "no spank zone." Go figure.


Haha. Well, I also believe that bad parents can come up with good kids and good parents can come up with bad kids and any other combination you can think of.

We can't control our kids. They're not science projects. We have to do everything within our power to guide them. The rest is up to them. There are no guarantees.

I believe there's a right way and a wrong way to use physical violence. It all boils down to that simple fact.


I agree. And there is a big difference between measured physical punishment and abuse. Sadly, not everyone knows the difference.

Good article, Tex.


Thanks!

Dr.Guy:
I cannot comment now, but it is a good topic.


Thanks. I look forward to hearing more from you.

Moderateman:
I always though attaching battery cables to the genitals of children is a good way to get my point across.


Hahahahhaa...if it's good enough for Abu Ghraib it's good enough for our children, eh?

ok child listen I am only going to say this once. behave

BUZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT CRACKLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

understand?


Hehe.
on Oct 05, 2005
BUZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT CRACKLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!


Too high on the electric costs, have you tried scaphism or the brazen bull?

Link

Link

{shrug} I was spanked. It worked.
on Oct 05, 2005
SPC:
{shrug} I was spanked. It worked.


What did you learn from it, though? Don't do that or you'll get hit?

Here's an example:

My oldest got in trouble in school for writing a note and distracting other students while he was in class.

I could have spanked him. What he would have gotten from that was, "if the teacher tells my mom that I acted up, I will get a couple of brief, but painful, swats on the butt". Sucky, but fleeting.

Instead, he spent about an hour at home in silence. He had to sit still and not speak. This was really boring and sucked for him, and a good match for his "crime" which was not sitting still and not being quiet.

After this, he was required to write a three page "paper" on why it's important to follow the rules in class. This took him some time, so it sucked for him. It required him to think about what he did wrong and how that could negatively affect him, his teacher, and his classmates as well specific ways that he could improve his behavior and performance in class. He practiced his writing skills, vocabulary, and his handwriting. He was forced to contemplate the class rules, why they are in place, and why it is beneficial to follow them.

THAT experience will stick with him a lot longer than any smack to the ass.
on Oct 05, 2005
Reply By: Spc Nobody SpecialPosted: Wednesday, October 05, 2005BUZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT CRACKLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!Too high on the electric costs, have you tried scaphism or the brazen bull? LinkLink


naw ya just use the car battery, attch cables, gun engine, watch em dance. hahashahahahahaha
on Oct 05, 2005
naw ya just use the car battery, attch cables, gun engine, watch em dance. hahashahahahahaha


*shakes her head*

Soooo wrong, Modman. Hehe.
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