Doesn't it feel so satisfying to beat a child's buttocks raw when they've done something awful and angered you?

The old saying, "This is going to hurt me a lot more than it hurts you" just simply isn't true. Hitting is great stress relief. It's a way to excise aggression. And when it's used to punish a child who has embarrassed or otherwise angered you, it can be considered a parental duty. Discipline.

We can't pull our belts off and beat the ass of the snooty lady in the Ford Explorer who whipped into "our" parking space after we'd waited 10 minutes for it and shown clear intent, via a turn signal, to use that spot. How great would it be if we could bend the old biddy over our knee and just let her have it?

What about when a conniving coworker takes credit for something we've worked diligently on for days? Wouldn't it be delicious to be able to take that ping-pong paddle in the bottom drawer of our desks and smack and smack until we felt calm?

Let me interject a little disclaimer here: I think that parents should have the right to use measured physical punishment as discipline if they choose. This is not a "we need a law!" post. It's more of a "think about this" post.

My children are still young. My parenting experience is limited. I've educated myself a fair amount through college study on child development, through reading parenting books and magazines, through talking with other parents, and through attending several free parenting classes offered by the Army. In spite of this, I realize I don't know it all. And I cannot know whether the discipline tools I currently use with my children will continue to be appropriate or if they will help them grow into respectful, hard-working adults with integrity.

However, it is my belief that spanking and other forms of corporal punishment do less to benefit a child through instruction and more to benefit an adult through stress relief.

Spanking is easy. It's the easy out.

It doesn't require thought. It doesn't require that you monitor the child for several minutes or even days or weeks as they complete a fleshed out discipline regimen. It doesn't require the parent to miss a movie or a trip to the ice cream shop. It's easy.

It also, as I've previously mentioned, provides the parent with a much-needed outlet for his or her anger.

Does a child learn life long self-discipline and personal integrity through spanking? Child development is such that in the younger years, a child lacks empathy. They have a difficult time understanding how their actions affect other people. They are egocentric and it is possible to stop a bad behavior by giving them a negative consequence that they will want to avoid.

However, they do not have the memory capacity that adults do, and so punishment must immediately follow the infraction or they will have no clue why this person they depend on to meet their needs is hurting them. This also means that a spanking for pulling the cat's tail last week doesn't stand a good chance of being a deterrent memory for this week.

My personal choice for disciplining very young children is that spanking (a swift swat, more scarily surprising to the child than painful) is an appropriate tool when a child who is too young to understand natural consequences when they are explained to him has done something physically dangerous. Example: running out in the street. This will not always keep them from running into the street again, something which is best avoided through parental vigilance, but it often will work as a deterrent in the short term when it is imperative that a behavior be stopped.

Very young children benefit more from distraction than actual discipline. Because of their limited understanding of natural consequences, inability to understand how their behaviors may harm someone else, and their memory capacity, the most effective way to get them to stop an undesirable behavior is to distract them with something else. This requires effort on the part of the parent, but works well for stopping bad behavior in the moment. It is not a long-term solution, but at a very young age, children operate in the moment, without much, if any, thought for future or past consequences.

As children grow and develop, avoidance of negative consequences is their primary motivating factor (not yet empathy or understanding of how their behaviors affect others). Spanking could work in children who have reached this level of development.

However, spanking fails to address natural consequences, which children need to start becoming familiar with. When discipline reinforces natural consequences, children learn that the rules are not arbitrary, but have a purpose and that adhering to the rules is in their best interest. Children need to see the connection between their behavior and choices and how those negative choices affect themselves and others. An example of discipline that reinforces natural consequences is making a child who has intentionally broken a friend's favorite toy give the friend their own favorite toy. The punishment is relevant to the infraction, works as a deterrent, and demonstrates the real life consequences of destroying the property of others (restitution).

Natural consequence-based discipline requires thought and effort and sometimes even personal sacrifice on the part of the parent, but I believe that it is much more beneficial for the child by way of character development. More than just a punishment, it is also a lesson.

Older children are able to empathize with others and understand how their choices and behaviors may bring negative consequences for themselves and others. They are not driven primarily by selfish avoidance of pain or other more direct punishments, but can be deterred from undesirable behavior simply through knowing that a certain behavior will disappoint their parents or others. When children reach this point in their development, many more discipline tools and methods are effective in deterring bad behavior. A word of caution, though...just because a punishment or discipline deters bad behavior does not mean that it builds character or integrity in a child. A form of discipline can be effective and still physically or psychologically damaging to a child.

Another concern with spanking is that it teaches a child to hit in order to demonstrate their disapproval of the actions of others, thus encouraging violence.

My oldest child is eight and neither of my children are delinquents or have any major discipline problems. I know that the method I've advocated (which I've very much simplified here) works up to age 8 with MY children. Every family is different, and every child is different. Unfortunately, so much of parenting is trial and error. And you don't get to eat the mistakes, haha. We all have to work out the discipline plan that we feel best serves our children.

For me, that plan does not center around spanking, which I feel is primarily an aggression outlet for parents and teaches children nothing except "don't get caught or you'll get beat" and "I can do what I want and then just take my licks...it's worth it".

I was spanked as a child...all the way up to even my mid-teens. When I did something bad I'd get the choice of grounding or spanking. It didn't take me long to figure out how easy it was to take a spanking and go on my merry little way. It just wasn't a deterrent for me. It was easy. Easy for my parents to administer, and easy for me to take. A few minutes of pain was a small price to pay for the deliciously awful stuff I did.

In my experience, spanking, while it remains a parent's right, is just not a real discipline plan. It's a parent lashing out at a child rather than instructing him. Spanking is lazy and should be replaced with more effective forms of discipline that actually teach a child how to behave and become a decent adult.

We teach our children ways to deal with their anger and provide them with safe, appropriate outlets. What kind of message are we sending when we can't do the same?



Comments (Page 2)
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on Oct 06, 2005
{shrug} I was spanked. It worked.


Yup, me too. Spanking was kind of what we got if we continued to disobey, not some knee-jerk reaction because they were angry. My aunt and uncle, on the other hand, went for the "reasoning" method and I poignantly remember when we were delayed for an HOUR while my aunt had to reason with her son about why he couldn't sit in his favorite seat in the car.

-A.
on Oct 06, 2005
Angloesque:
Yup, me too. Spanking was kind of what we got if we continued to disobey, not some knee-jerk reaction because they were angry.


I have no problem with spanking as a measured discipline tool. You've stated that your parents did not spank out of anger, and further that it was used in addition to other methods.

If that worked for you and your siblings, then that's great. I'm not anti-spanking. I think there are situations where it is appropriate, and I think it should always remain a parent's choice.

I just think it is often overused and misused.

My aunt and uncle, on the other hand, went for the "reasoning" method and I poignantly remember when we were delayed for an HOUR while my aunt had to reason with her son about why he couldn't sit in his favorite seat in the car.


How old was her son? As mentioned in my article, really young children don't have that "see it from my (the parent) point of view" ability. Reasoning with a young child is useless.

A parent cannot allow a child to take him or her hostage (which apparently is what happened). Depending on the age of the child, "either/or" and "when/then" statements can work well. Really stubborn kids (I have one!) sometimes just have to be told no and be allowed to cry.

Spanking might have shocked him into compliance, and I see no problem with that, particularly when other people were being delayed because of his behavior. But there are other ways to deal with fits and stubbornness as well.
on Oct 06, 2005

Having re-read the article and the comments, my main point of difference is in your implied absolute.  That spanking is never the right course and only a form of anger management for the parent.  WHile I will not disagree that can be often the case, it is not always the case.  And spanking does have its place in the rearing of children.  But never when the parent is angry, for then it is only anger management.

And not on children in their teens!  As you correctly pointed out, a swat was a lot easier to take than a week of restriction.  But for early children where their concept of right and wrong is based on a reward and punishment system, it is very acceptable, and in many cases the most effective form of discipline.

I think the oldest any of my children was was about 6.  After that, restriction (TV, Video games, etc.) was much more effective to curb their destructive behaviour.  But I would not automatically classify spanking as a lazy form of discipline, nor solely as a form of anger management.  A 5 year old is too young to understand restriction as a punishment (since they have such a short attention span anyway), but the displeasure of a spanking (the 'this is going to hurt me worse than you') does get to them as they do see the loving parent now doing something that is not fun. 

I doubt many of us who were spanked as a child, grew up to be serial killers due to the experience, or even patricidal. Indeed many studies have shown that he worst killers often were neglected emotionally (i.e., no discipline) as children, and grew up with no comprehension of reward and punishment.

on Oct 06, 2005

Instead, he spent about an hour at home in silence. He had to sit still and not speak. This was really boring and sucked for him, and a good match for his "crime" which was not sitting still and not being quiet.

After this, he was required to write a three page "paper" on why it's important to follow the rules in class

Wow...that's rough!  Bet he won't do THAT again though, huh?

Each child is different, and parents have to work to understand what works best with each child.

Exactly.  Discipline isn't a 'one size fits all' kind of deal.  You have to tailor your methods to fit each child.  For example, making Davey go to his room works well because he's more of a social child and doesn't like being alone.  So, making him spend some time in his room with no TV, no playstation or X-Box and no contact with anyone else works well.  jake, on the other hand, actually enjoys getting away from everyone so time out in his room doesn't work so well.  Jake usually ends up having his bike riding and basketball playing privileges taken away, because we know that's what will affect him the most.

We're still trying to figure out what works with Shea.  She's so...hormonal right now that it's hard to know what works from one day to the next.  Are you SURE you want a little girl, Tex???

on Oct 06, 2005
OUCH! When I read this headline I was thinking hey I am not angry or lazy....then I read on and agree. Maggie learned what the word "hot" means for the most part by when she would reach for something dangerously hot I would pop her hand ....never turned red as it would have if she had come in contact with the hot object. We would reinforce this would really warm things like her dinner...."hot Maggie" so she would get the concept. Anyway...liked the article.
I remember clearly the last time Dakota got a spanking, he was nine and his dad was in Iraq. He hit his brother out of anger realy hard which totaly freaked me and my pregnant hormones out. I told him he was going to get a spanking which he seemed to doubt since he, like me, couldn't remember the year of his last spanking. I calmed myself down, took care of Austin and then went to do to the deed. I got one small swat in and he had such fear in his face I started crying, felt horrible. Realized at that moment FOR ME and MY KIDS, that they were too old for that and it just wasn't going to work. So I sat down and told him it would be wrong for me to hit him since he was in trouble for hitting his brother and that would be hypocritcal of me so he apologized to Austin and had to miss going to a spend the night party that he was supposed to attend. This of course won me no points with that pesons mom but hey parenting isn't a popularity contest. Thanks for a great article Tex
on Oct 06, 2005
tex, when I was young around 12 I stole 50 cents from my mothers purse so I could by a dozen eggs to throw at people on hollow weeny, My father did bastinado to me, damn near crippled me, I screamed like a dog getting run over by a car.

That did not stop me either, I just got smarter and never again crapped in my own yard.

I never hit my kids, never, ever.
on Oct 06, 2005
We were not ever just spanked, we were spanked and grounded, and my mom didn't spank, it was the old "wait till your father gets home" stuff, so it wasn't my dad hitting out in anger either.

They did that writing a report thing (well, it was actually a questionnaire of sorts) when a student got detention. Those just pissed me off. I don't remember what it was I had detention for, but when I filled out the questionnaire, I ended up making more of a political statement than stating what I did, since I didn't think I did anything wrong. I had a Saturday detention for wearing a "come meet me at bud island" shirt. It didn't say Budweiser or bud light or any other beer related statement any wear, not even on the tag. That gave me 3 hours to slam the school in writing. I wrote how wrong they were for giving me the detention, and on and on and on. One of the questions was something like, why are you in detention. I responded simply, I don't know, why don't you ask the teacher since I did nothing wrong, wore nothing wrong etc. I got called into the principals office and questioned, I ended up storming out of the office, after pretty much telling him off. I didn't get another detention or questionnaire after that, and when he called my parents and complained about me (I had already told them) my dad told him that he was proud of me for standing up for what I believe in. I didn't get in trouble at all, and actually came out of it looking like some sort of hero to my classmates. hehehe. After that, I bought tooons of "dirty" shirts and just put tape over the "naughty" parts, since the school allowed that. I was a wicked teen. *EG*

Oh well, I forgot my point, maybe I didn't have one, just wanted to share. *L* Good article Tex!
on Oct 07, 2005
Good article, Tex. While I, too, respect the rights of responsible parents to make certain decisions, I've found your rules to be pretty much the case. It may be necessary for a swat (BIG difference between that and a beating) to stop your toddler from climbing on the hot stove, but as they grow, discipline should be geared around TEACHING, rather than punishing. And spanking really doesn't teach anything productive.
on Oct 07, 2005
Dr.Guy:
Having re-read the article and the comments, my main point of difference is in your implied absolute. That spanking is never the right course and only a form of anger management for the parent.


I don't think I've implied that. Perhaps in my headline and opener, which were designed to grab the attention of the reader and were a bit forceful, but anyone who has read the entire article should know where I stand on this. And my replies in the comments section confirm that as well.

WHile I will not disagree that can be often the case, it is not always the case. And spanking does have its place in the rearing of children. But never when the parent is angry, for then it is only anger management.


Again, this is something that I agree with. I think that spanking has its place in discipline and parents should have the right to choose it as a discipline tool.

However, parents who ONLY spank their children (there's a lot of parents out there like that, btw) are simply REACTING to their children's bad behavior and not providing instruction. Further, I've seen many, many, many parents spank their children out of anger and I think that's very tragic.

And not on children in their teens! As you correctly pointed out, a swat was a lot easier to take than a week of restriction. But for early children where their concept of right and wrong is based on a reward and punishment system, it is very acceptable, and in many cases the most effective form of discipline.


Haha, yeah, spanking didn't work so great on me as a teen. I was usually given a choice, and I always chose spanking. It wasn't the only punishment I got, but I always hoped for it because it was so easy.

I'm glad that you mentioned rewards as well, because I feel they are an important part of a discipline plan. While intrinsic motivation is important and should be something a parent strives to encourage in his or her child, rewards are the other side of the coin when it comes to natural consequences; they teach children that certain behaviors are advantageous and that those behaviors are not only desirable from a moral standpoint but are also rewarded in our society. I think that helps prepare them for adulthood.

But I would not automatically classify spanking as a lazy form of discipline, nor solely as a form of anger management.


I don't think I classified it SOLELY as a lazy form of discipline or anger management. Taking all my statements in context I think it's clear that I feel that spanking CAN, but doesn't always have to, be those things. The intent of this article is a reminder to guard against that.

A 5 year old is too young to understand restriction as a punishment (since they have such a short attention span anyway), but the displeasure of a spanking (the 'this is going to hurt me worse than you') does get to them as they do see the loving parent now doing something that is not fun.


I have a five year old, and he easily understands restrictions and logical consequence based discipline.

Example: Yesterday he drew on the dining room table with a crayon. We were stern with him and reprimanded him for it. I also explained to him that if he continued to damage the furniture, it would have to be replaced and we would not have money for toys.

The logical consequence for his misbehavior was to scrub the entire table to undo the damage. He also knew that if he continued to damage any piece of furniture, the money to repair or replace the furniture would come from the money we use to buy his toys.

He came in here a moment ago to ask me to throw something at him (don't ask!) and so I asked him about this to confirm that he remembers.

Me: What will happen if you draw on the table again?
Him: It will get destroyed.
Me: What happens if it's destroyed?
Him: You have to replace it and buy a new one.
Me: What will happen if I have to buy a new one? Where will the money to buy it come from?
Him: (frowning) I won't get to get any toys for a long time.

He's barely five, but he understands. The age where kids can understand consequences and restrictions can be different for each kid, but I think I'd shoot lower than five for beginning that type of discipline.

I doubt many of us who were spanked as a child, grew up to be serial killers due to the experience, or even patricidal.


I haven't even remotely implied that. I don't believe that measured spanking is necessarily damaging to a child. I just don't believe it's the best choice in a lot of situations.

Indeed many studies have shown that he worst killers often were neglected emotionally (i.e., no discipline) as children, and grew up with no comprehension of reward and punishment.


I've done a bit of reading on serial killers and the like. Their emotional and psychological issues are often independent of their relationship with their parents.

But I do agree that providing NO discipline or boundaries for a child is damaging. Children learn that their parents care about their wellbeing through discipline and that guidance is necessary to help them develop a moral bearing and good decision-making skills.
on Oct 07, 2005
dharma:
Wow...that's rough! Bet he won't do THAT again though, huh?


Haha. It made quite an impression on him.

One of my biggest failings as a parent is that I am far too lenient at home. However, when it comes to my children's education, I take it very seriously because I feel like it sets the foundation for their success or failure in adult life.

For example, making Davey go to his room works well because he's more of a social child and doesn't like being alone. So, making him spend some time in his room with no TV, no playstation or X-Box and no contact with anyone else works well. jake, on the other hand, actually enjoys getting away from everyone so time out in his room doesn't work so well. Jake usually ends up having his bike riding and basketball playing privileges taken away, because we know that's what will affect him the most.


Exactly!! One of the biggest problems with parenting books and classes is that they tend to present a "one size fits all" type of parenting. You have to be involved enough to know your kid and know what kind of discipline sticks with him or her.

It sounds like you and Dave are great parents!

We're still trying to figure out what works with Shea. She's so...hormonal right now that it's hard to know what works from one day to the next. Are you SURE you want a little girl, Tex???


All the time I say, "I'm so glad I've got boys!" Haha. But I do desperately want a daughter, even with all the unique challenges parenting a girl brings. It's scary stuff, though! I just hope I don't have a daughter like me!!
on Oct 07, 2005
Infantry Wife:
OUCH! When I read this headline I was thinking hey I am not angry or lazy....then I read on and agree.


Hehe. Forgive me, haha, I wanted to write something that would grab the reader's attention enough to get them to read the boring stuff that made up the meat of the article!

Maggie learned what the word "hot" means for the most part by when she would reach for something dangerously hot I would pop her hand ....never turned red as it would have if she had come in contact with the hot object. We would reinforce this would really warm things like her dinner...."hot Maggie" so she would get the concept.


I definitely think there are times...particularly when it comes to a child's safety...when it is much kinder (and sometimes just plain necessary!) to spank to prevent a child from doing something that would harm them.

"Hot" is a hard one for kids to understand without experiencing it. I'm glad that's working out so well for you.

Anyway...liked the article.


Thanks.

I remember clearly the last time Dakota got a spanking, he was nine and his dad was in Iraq. He hit his brother out of anger realy hard which totaly freaked me and my pregnant hormones out. I told him he was going to get a spanking which he seemed to doubt since he, like me, couldn't remember the year of his last spanking. I calmed myself down, took care of Austin and then went to do to the deed.


The stress of deployment makes discipline SOOO hard for the parent left behind and the children. My youngest had a difficult time adjusting and was very clingy, scared, and weepy. It's typical for children to act out (older kids especially become angry and/or violent because of the frustration and feelings of abandonment, although I'm not telling you anything you don't already know!) and even have developmental set backs.

The parent left behind is worried, sad, longing for companionship, and just plain frazzled. And when you add pregnancy...yikes! It's a big challenge for military families.

I got involved in some free parenting classes during my husband's deployment because of the struggle my youngest was having. I didn't find all of what I learned to be useful, but I did learn some new tricks, and it helped me reconfirm my commitment to teaching my children rather than just surviving the day!

Realized at that moment FOR ME and MY KIDS, that they were too old for that and it just wasn't going to work. So I sat down and told him it would be wrong for me to hit him since he was in trouble for hitting his brother and that would be hypocritcal of me so he apologized to Austin and had to miss going to a spend the night party that he was supposed to attend.


That's exactly what I'm talking about. Using parenting tools beyond simply striking a child really requires a lot of effort, restraint, and sacrifice on the part of the parent.

I also question the justification of teaching children not to hit and be violent while striking them to show our displeasure at their actions.

It's hard being a parent!

This of course won me no points with that pesons mom but hey parenting isn't a popularity contest.


Ain't that the truth!

Thanks for a great article Tex


Thanks for sharing your wisdom and experiences.

Moderateman:
tex, when I was young around 12 I stole 50 cents from my mothers purse so I could by a dozen eggs to throw at people on hollow weeny, My father did bastinado to me, damn near crippled me, I screamed like a dog getting run over by a car.

That did not stop me either, I just got smarter and never again crapped in my own yard.


Wow. I'm so sorry to hear that. That's awful.

(And it does confirm my idea that spanking often doesn't teach children much beyond, "Don't get caught and you won't get hit"...it doesn't really provide much in the way of instruction or moral guidance)

I never hit my kids, never, ever.


That doesn't surprise me. It's been obvious to me from your writings about your family that your children are precious to you, and I can definitely understand your being so adamant about not making the same mistake your dad made.

(Hehe, usually we avoid our own parents' mistakes and instead come up with new ways to screw up our kids! Haha. I think it's unavoidable!)
on Oct 07, 2005
msladydeath:
We were not ever just spanked, we were spanked and grounded, and my mom didn't spank, it was the old "wait till your father gets home" stuff, so it wasn't my dad hitting out in anger either.


Haha. I got the "wait til dad gets home" thing, too. I started out with that with my kids, but I quickly learned that I was a)making daddy the bad guy and b)teaching my children that I was impotent and powerless to discipline them.

I no longer do that.

I was a wicked teen


Sure sounds like it, hehe. I was naughty, too...and I won't go into some of the things I did in school on here because my parents read my blog!

It sounds, from your story, like you're very strong willed...which is a great thing if you're able to channel it well. Congrats!

Oh well, I forgot my point, maybe I didn't have one, just wanted to share.


I'm glad you did!

Good article Tex!


Thanks.

Gideon:
Good article, Tex.




It may be necessary for a swat (BIG difference between that and a beating) to stop your toddler from climbing on the hot stove, but as they grow, discipline should be geared around TEACHING, rather than punishing. And spanking really doesn't teach anything productive.


You've very concisely summed up my beliefs. Thank you.
on Oct 07, 2005
It sounds like you and Dave are great parents!


I dunno about that. We do alright, but I'm sure there are some folks who would say we suck as parents because we don't make our kids keep their rooms spotless, eat a meat and potatoes meal for dinner every night or because we don't tuck them in and wash their backs in the bath tub.....which brings me to a question: just when is it NOT appropriate to bathe your child anymore? (I'm asking you because you're a mom and you're cool). Jake's 9 and he doesn't want me anywhere near him when he's in the shower, but I know someone whose boy is 10 and she's still bathing him (like she's physically washing his body when he's in the tub).

But I do desperately want a daughter, even with all the unique challenges parenting a girl brings. It's scary stuff, though! I just hope I don't have a daughter like me!!


Ha! Shea is JUST like me. From looks to attitude. My mother says it's karmic retribution....
Seiously, having a girl isn't so bad. We do each other's hair and she's just getting into make-up so I'm teaching her about that....plus I can wear some of her clothes! I saw the cutest little girl the other day and though about you trying for a girl....she had dark curly hair and blue eyes and reminded me a lot of you.
Good luck on the trying...remember: practice, practice, practice! All it takes is one....
on Oct 07, 2005
Hehe, usually we avoid our own parents' mistakes and instead come up with new ways to screw up our kids! Haha. I think it's unavoidable!)


boy ain't that the truth I raised them as a real liberal parent, that was not the right way to go either.
on Oct 07, 2005
Little Whip:
Tex, just wanted to let ya know I was here, I just don't feel up to this particular discussion at this time, and perhaps I never will.


I respect that. Thanks for letting me know you were here. *hugs*

dharma:
I dunno about that. We do alright, but I'm sure there are some folks who would say we suck as parents because we don't make our kids keep their rooms spotless, eat a meat and potatoes meal for dinner every night or because we don't tuck them in and wash their backs in the bath tub.....


Haha. There's a fine line between involved and smothering!

which brings me to a question: just when is it NOT appropriate to bathe your child anymore? (I'm asking you because you're a mom and you're cool).


I'm a mom, but I think cool is a bit of a stretch, hehe.

My oldest (8) showers alone every morning. He's still young enough that we check after wards when he's dressed to make sure that his hair is clean and that he's scrubbed off any gunk that might have been on him, but personal hygiene is HIS responsibility.

I think a parent bathing a child is necessary up until the point where the child can safely handle the dials on the tub, is not at a high risk of drowning, and can be trusted to thoroughly clean him or herself, which I suppose could be different ages for different kids.

Jake's 9 and he doesn't want me anywhere near him when he's in the shower


Right. Xavier's the same way. He has an expectation that we will respect his privacy and grant him the ability to be modest. I think that's a very good thing.

but I know someone whose boy is 10 and she's still bathing him (like she's physically washing his body when he's in the tub).


Yikes. By ten, a kid should be able to safely run the shower and be expected to clean himself appropriately. That kid's nearing puberty, and needs boundaries and privacy.

His mom is absolving him of responsibility for his personal appearance and sending him some confusing messages about privacy and sexuality. I'd say it's not only handicapping his independence, but also more than a touch creepy.

Gah.

Ha! Shea is JUST like me. From looks to attitude. My mother says it's karmic retribution....


Hehe.

Seiously, having a girl isn't so bad. We do each other's hair and she's just getting into make-up so I'm teaching her about that....plus I can wear some of her clothes!


Shallow, I know, but those are some of the reasons why I'd like to have a daughter. I'd like to have a daughter that I could share femininity and the experiences of being female with.

(Haha, and I'm so jealous! I'd never be able to wear my daughter's clothes unless she was a chunky girl!)

I saw the cutest little girl the other day and though about you trying for a girl....she had dark curly hair and blue eyes and reminded me a lot of you.


That's so sweet. Thank you for sharing that. I look at my boys and how gorgeous they are to me, and I can imagine a chubby cheeked, dark haired little girl with her daddy's long eyelashes...so cute!

Good luck on the trying...remember: practice, practice, practice! All it takes is one....


Haha. Adrian got home on Tuesday, and practice, practice, practice we have!

Moderateman:
boy ain't that the truth I raised them as a real liberal parent, that was not the right way to go either.


It's funny because my parents were very strict, and I'm lenient. Adrian's parents were permissive almost to the point of negligence, and he's the strict one in our house.

Despite my best efforts to raise decent, caring, morally upright young men, I know that I make mistakes all the time. I just hope against hope that I won't screw them up too badly.
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